Agnieszka Grzybek:
Why feminists started to get involved with the topic of motherhood, which in Poland is often seen as a domain of the right wing?
Sylwia Chutnik:
For the founders of the MAMA Foundation the subject of motherhood was always very important, even though at the beginning, it was not related to out own experience, at first it was a curiosity, because this topic, only a couple years ago was absent from Polish feminism. For me a handbook published by American feminists Children and Feminism was a big inspiration in that matter. It provided practical tips on how to incorporate children in political activism, for instance by giving them a task of painting the banners for the demonstration. When I gave birth at the age of 23, I experienced the consequences of being a mom myself: architectural barriers, problems at the labour market, unbearable stereotypes that force Polish women into the social margins. Then it occurred to me that the old feminist slogan „private is political” is still very much current. I realized that I could be frustrated at night at my house with my girlfriends who are in the similar situation, or I can transform this personal experience into the political activism. And this is how the MAMA foundation was born.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
In Poland we speak of motherhood in extremes: we either deal with the discourse that relegates women to the kitchen and child care or with the liberal narrative that promotes the ideal of a “superwoman” bravely combining the professional, paid work with taking care of her child; the woman that is on duty 24 ours a day. How do you situate yourself within this landscape? What is your philosophy of action?
Sylwia Chutnik:
It is hard for us too. People think that just because there is a „mom” in the foundation’s name, it means that we focus on assisting particular groups of mothers: for instance only mothers of children with disabilities, single mothers of mothers with disabilities. Or that we will support any kind of solutions that protect mothers, for instance introducing the 3 years protection period for women returning to work after the childbearing, within this period they couldn’t be fired and many. People think we would approve of any kind of behaviour from women: for instance if they pretend theirs is a high –risk pregnancy to be able to take a health leave. Sometimes we deal with comical situations, for instance when the extremely conservative organizations ask us to collaborate, because „mama” (“mom”) in the name of our organization is so self-evidently traditionalist for them. Our foundation attempts to deal with issues related to motherhood holistically, we treat mothers a particular social group, and we support mother’s right to decide about her motherhood, and we try to be active on behalf to the systemic change of their situation.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
Did the language in which we speak about situation of mothers’ changed over the last 20 years in Poland?
Sylwia Chutnik:
It definitely did. Thanks to the new media, Internet and number of magazines and handbooks that were published women have much better access to information. Mothers discuss their issues on the Internet massage board s and forums and they do support each other. On the other hand however this can cause information chaos, women are often overwhelmed and disorientated by the contradictory advice. They often don’t know, what to choose, they are looking in the dark. We should appreciate that women have been „freed” from homes: the places for parents with young children are mushrooming throughout, mostly in the big cities. What is a very interesting is the pop-cultural phenomenon— which is now very in— of eco-parenting, often associated with modern lifestyle. In her book, published last year, French feminist Elizabeth Badinter, argues that this modern trend of eco-parenting brings women home again, similarly to the times that Betty Friedan describes in her. Only that in the Feminist Mystique, Friedan argues that the social system confines women at home, and Badinter states that women are caught in the home making trap by themselves. Cooking according to five transformations, non-diapers upbringing is very labour consuming, and there is no time for anything else.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
What about the language of politicians?
Sylwia Chutnik:
It has changed to some degree, even though the perception of motherhood stayed the same. The rights wing – conservative discourse is still dominating, and it is often embedded in the idea of the traditional division of social roles. The research conducted on the division of housework confirms that women are still much more burdened by the unpaid labour. On the occasion of the debate in the Parliament about the day care facilities (1) expressed the sensitivity to the fact that they cannot order women to stay home because the family can’t survive on one salary. But on the other hand they lamented that women are forced to go to work by the „bloody” capitalism, and because their family cannot survive on one salary. Often, in this debate on the provisions that aimed at helping women to balance the professional work and child care, the professional career is repressed as a negative, and the fact that women should just have an opportunity to go back to work is often omitted. That kind of thinking often implies that for women career is more important that the child and that the woman who want to go back to work market are egoists, because they neglect their children, they leave them at the day-care.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
What then does it mean to be a mother in Poland?
Sylwia Chutnik:
It depends, of course on who is speaking about it: rural woman, mother of the child with disabilities, single mother, mother of the adopted child… I could go on and talk about 100 of other kinds of mothers, who are the heroines of our book, under the same title. To be a mother in Poland means functioning between two extremes: on one hand it means to be a “superwoman”, on the other a Mother Pole, constantly exhausted, entirely devoted to children. To be a mother in Poland is to experience a constant frustration, cause it means that women has to face the high expectations, she is faced with. It is a risk of loosing your job; it is a risk of being discriminated against at work. All the time we have to deal with the stereotype that, the pregnant women, or the mother of a little child is a defective employee, she cannot be counted on, because at work she constantly is thinking about her child. This is why is being omitted in the, motivation bonuses. raises and she is not been sent to vocational trainings. Why motivate women, if there is no use of it. Even though we do have a good labour code, which is designed to protect women at the labour market, the instances of violating workers’ rights are often, “in the white gloves”. One instance and the classic example is the reduction of the workplace of the woman coming back from the maternity or parental leave.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
What are the solutions that your foundation proposes to improve the situation of mothers?
Sylwia Chutnik:
First of all we try to publicize the issues related to the violation of mothers’ rights, and we do support mothers fighting for their rights. We do provide unpaid counselling, we advise women to fight for their rights in the court, if they are discriminated again at work. They victory in the court can improve the situation of other women. We try to lobby politicians, we publicize our demands in the media, we collaborate with local authorities. For instance we conducted a campaign that stigmatized the alimony non-payers and the social approval of fathers’ avoiding fulfilling their duties towards the children. In two districts of Warsaw we conducted an audit of places that are not accessible for strollers. We photographed and described every hole in the street, every uneven pavement, and lack of lifts. We submitted 500 pages report to the city clerks it can help them to better design the renovations. We have started a coalition with the persons on wheel chairs and elderly persons. Together we fight for erasing the barriers protecting from moving around the city. We organize activities for children in the movie theatres and in the Museum of Contemporary Art, during which parent cans watch a movie or an exhibition. Now we are starting projects directed toward mothers that are in violent relationship and mothers who suffer from post-partum depression, and who have a difficult started at the labour market. We are establishing mother’s cooperative.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
For some time now, in Poland, the flexible forms of employment are promoted as ones that allow women to combine professional and family life. Particularly they are represented as an ideal solution for mothers with young children. You have objection to them. Why?
Sylwia Chutnik:
We are not really fond of the way in which flexible forms of employment are promoted as the only solution for women. First of all because after stepping down from the full time to the part time employment, it is very hard to get back to the full time position. Second, women are often offered „garbage job contracts” that do not provide any social security of retirement plan. Another trap, which we aim to expose, is self-employment that is promoted as ideal for young mothers. Such businesses are often, particularly at the beginning ran from home. But it is very hard to combine work and childcare, not every women has an ability to multitask, to be able to focus on work without overburden herself with stress, to focus on work and watch the child at the same time. We think that flexible forms of employment should be a temporary solution in the woman’s career. On the surface they can help but we can see their shortcomings, the fact that women will experience a double burden, she is an employee and a housewives.
Agnieszka Grzybek:
Work done by women at home is disregarded and underappreciated, but it is, recently talked about. How do you propose to build up appreciation for it?
Sylwia Chutnik:
In 2010 we hand over our recommendation on how the unpaid women’s work should be treated to the Parliament. We argued there that educating and taking care of children and elderly care that it is work on behalf of the household and family. Research conducted by our foundation and other organizations, show that women who take care of household and children, are often under appreciated by the society and their community. We divided our recommendations to the Parliament into three areas: social justice, economy and equality. We requested among other things the general accessibility of kindergarten education, and high quality workshops, adjusting of the kindergarten opening hours to the needs of parents and care providers. We also pointed to the need for developing the alternative forms of elderly care, for instance increase of the payments for the retirement plans for the parents on the parental leaves. We noted the necessity to equate rights of women who are self employed, who, right now do not have a right to the retirement plan for the period of childcare, even though they are forced to suspend their professional activities during that time period. Parents of children with disabilities are the worst off, and particularly women, who most often resign from professional work to take care of a child, we want them to receive the services equal to the lowest salary of the nurses, and the years devoted to rehabilitation could count towards the retirement. We are aware that the changes in education are needed, to transform the attitude towards the housework. Therefore we think that even kindergartens and schools should to have equality programs that would teach children how to share household duties. We see that on the one hand women are often proclaiming that they live in the partnership relationships, on the other hand the real equality at home ends with the fact that man vacuum the apartment or take the garbage out, if it is presented to him. During the workshops that we conduct in our foundation we teach how to share house duties. The change of the individual consciousness is often harder to achieve then to convince Member of Parliament to vote for given law.
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Footnotes:
(1) So-called „day care center law” which makes it easier to set up day care centers and other alternative facilities for children under 3 years old was adopted by the Polish parliament in February 2011.
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About the Author:
Sylwia Chutnik – a feminist writer and activist, anarchofeminist. Since the 1990s she has been active in the Polish women’s movement. Together with Julia Kubisa and Anna Pieruszka she funded MAMA Foundation, the organization fights for women’s rights in 2006. She is the author of “Pocket women’s Atlas” (2008), for which she was awarded „Polityka’s” weekly Passport in literature. She also an author of “Dzidzia”. In 2009 she was nominated to the literary award Nike and she has received Ashoka Social Nobel.
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